The Explicit Whiteness of Goth

There is some anti-white troll on that calls himself “Gothic Joe” and is supposedly into the “goth scene.” Me, personally, I’m not into the “goth scene” and never have been, although I do like some of the music and music that is closely related, like industrial.

But I do have to admit I’ve had a long kind of fascination with and obsession with “goth chicks.”

I just like the style – the “Suicide Girl” thing. I totally have the hots for women who dress up in “Dominatrix” types outfits. No, I’m not at all a “sub” and don’t get off to being “topped” by a Dominatrix – my sexuality tends to go the opposite direction, to be blunt. Watching the dominatrix slowly yield and turn into a submissive puppy is really, really hot.

I just like the boots, the leather, the little, subtle “restraints” that they wear. And the more these goth chicks dress up like Dommes, the more you know they are total submissives in private.

There is of course a HUGE element of BDSM in the “goth scene” – they are practically synonymous in many people’s minds. Goth tends to be a place where suburban girls can sort of “experiment” with BDSM fashion – and sex – while just making it a sort of “style” and “play.”

Probably the two biggest “goth” acts that went mainstream in the last 20 years were Nine Inch Nails (great) and Marilyn Manson (lame.) Both acts filled their videos and stage shows with hints of BDSM. Marilyn Manson’s video for his cover of “Tainted Love” (ironically, a Motown song by a Black woman that was also covered by the White “New Wave” band Soft Cell in the 1980s, an exception that proves the rule) was a pretty good short film full of that sort of style with plenty of suburban degeneracy – and it was full out “racist” too, Manson’s “goth thugs” were the “alphas” over the Blacks and Wiggers and White preppies – and turned the Cheerleader into a Suicide Girl at the end. It’s cute, not to be taken seriously, but still kind of cute.

Anyway I got into it with “Gothic Joe” by pointing out just how WHITE the goth scene is. Like all “alternative” subculture scenes, it’s a way for White people to SEGREGATE themselves from mainstream integrated society. Consider the original “alternative” scene of the 1990s. The mainstream pop music at the time was heavily dominated by Black artists – Prince, Michael Jackson, and a host of black and brown women “divas.” Even the metal scene, long a bastion of uber-whiteness, had started incorporating hip hop and featuring Black lead singers.

Then along comes “grunge” – the Whitest of the White – based on bands in uber-White Seattle. What distinguished “grunge” music like Nirvana and Pearl Jam from the mainstream pop music of the time?

The complete, 100% absence of ANY black musical influence. Grunge even took it farther by cutting out the guitar solos lest there be any hint of even a light skinned, white presetning Black guitar hero like Jimi Hendrix!

I was at the very first Lollapolloza in the 1990s – I think the only Black person at the entire festival was the lead singer of Living Color.

Goth is much the same way. One of the earliest and most influential “goth” bands was England’s Bauhaus. Look at the band, watch their videos, listen to their music. It’s whiter than white. Over the top theatrical even, lots of references to theater culture – another bastion of whiteness.

If you go to any major city in America and want to go out dancing, and you want to be sure the scene will be 99.99% White people? Go to the goth nightclub. Because the scene is so White, the women feel much safer to go all out, dress really sexy, get drunk and be exhibitionist. They do NOT feel as safe in a mixed race environment. Of course no one will admit it – they will all point to the single token Black goth – likely gay, thus not a threat to the women. But everyone knows the deal.

Also, the goth scene tends to be very Catholic I’ve noticed, and had goth friends say the same thing to me. Goth’s “dark” and even “satanic” image is really just based on the darker side of Catholicism itself. Of course even the name is based on the architectural style of old Catholic cathedrals. Yes, there’s a certain kind of pagan element to it, but it’s the same pagan element embedded in Catholicism itself. So that means the goth scene is also relatively kosher-free (hint, hint.)

I’m pro-White and of course support White people having our own cultural spaces where we are free to be us, express our own inner selves and our own culture. Goth is rather silly and often pretty goofy – but it is sincerely white.

Creeping up the backstairs
Slinking into dark stalls
Shapeless and slumped in bath chairs
Furtive eyes peep out of holes

She has many guises
She’ll do what you want her to
Playing dead and sweet submission
Cracks the whip deadpan on cue

Reeking like a pigsty
Peeling back and gagging free
Flaccid ego in your hand
Chokes on dry tears, can you understand?

She’s jeering at the shadows
Sneering behind a smile
Lunge and thrust to pout and pucker
Into the face of the beguiled

Peek-a-boo (Golly jeepers)
Peek-a-boo (Where’d you get those peepers?)
Peek-a-boo (Peepshow, creepshow)
Peek-a-boo (Where did you get those eyes?)
Strobe lights pump and flicker
Dry lips crack out for more
Come bite …

49 thoughts on “The Explicit Whiteness of Goth

  1. No offense, but I really don’t get the appeal of dominatrix garb, buckles, rubber tubes, various bits of metal dangling out of the ears, nose, lips, tongue, nipples, etc. Fair skin, black clothes, black hair, and mascara, sure – but the rest of that stuff is just ridiculous.

    If anything, the goth subculture seems like a prepackaged pathological version of whiteness – something like the pop culture equivalent of the Hollywood Nazi phenomenon you regularly critique. In fact, the two are related developments – see the work of Boyd Rice and the movie Pearls Before Swine, for an example of what I mean. Nazi exploitation movies of the 70s were full of S&M – and all of this for me associates cartoonish concepts of evil and racism with sexual depravity and dysfunction.

    I get what you’re saying about the self-segregation among fans of genres like goth rock and grunge, but the latter is too nihilistic and despairing to be a style or ethos worth embracing for me. Back in the 90s I wasted many hours staring at MTV and I still enjoy quite a bit of that music, but looking back, all I see when I look at Soundgarden’s “Black Hole Sun” video, for just one example, is Jews vilifying the suburbs and Christians and making white people look like perverted buffoons – plus promoting a little pedophilia while they’re at it:

    I recently ran across a woman’s personal ad – one of the black women the service insists on showing me in spite of the fact that I specify I’m only looking for white women – advertising herself as a “black goth girl”. Guess there’s always got to be at least one turd in the punch bowl.


    1. I don’t know, if you don’t get it, you don’t get it. I just think women in those dominatrix boots are hot. I find the subtle hints at bondage gear to be kind of sexy. I’m not a fan of metal in people’s faces, at all, and there’s plenty to that scene that I find outright goofy and often ugly. But women love it. Often times their costumes are like something straight out of Victorian times. And really that’s what the goth scene amounts to, a costume party.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. The Victorian style costumes are the best! I believe they call that Renaissance, a sort of sub category all its own. Boots, corsets and leather whips! As for piercings, that can be tasteful or crude. I can’t see the appeal of those ridiculously large gauges. All that just looks gross to me.

        Liked by 1 person

    2. It may be related to the Catholic element. In Catholic cultures you have Mardi Gras/Carnivale which is sort of like “opposite day” when the typical cultural restrictions don’t apply. There’s also a strong gay/lesbian element to these displays and even gender bending. In Sydney, they have started a Mardi Gras parade which is basically a crypto-pride parade.

      If Goth really is related to Catholic culture, and I think it is, there’s something kind of similar. There’s obviously the “dark” or “satanic” element to it, they appropriate Catholic symbols (cross necklaces, etc.) and draw out some “dark” pagan motifs from pre-Catholic European cultures.

      On the male side of “goth” culture there is certain some elements of gender-bending, subbies, and even gayness, but on the women’s side, the opposite. Women into goth tend to exaggerate their femininity with over-the-top Victornian dresses and subbie gear.

      Again, a lot of goth culture is just goofy. The Addams Family cartoon is perhaps the first “goth” popular culture and the original comic goes back to the 1920s. It’s just an “opposite day” kind of thing. You take what is normal and reverse it, it’s a form of cultural magic. And of course in America the ultimate “goth” holiday is Halloween, where you dress up as all the “bad” things like witches and ghosts. Even to this day there are very conservative Protestant churches that won’t celebrate Halloween for just this reason.

      The whole Nazi/stalag/S&M thing – I don’t know. That whole stalag porn thing, where Jewish men get beaten by Blonde She Wolfs of the SS – who knows. That’s a Jewish thing, I haven’t the slightest idea what that is all about. And of course the “Nazi S&M” thing is a gay male thing exclusively.

      In American goth culture, often times the gals will dress up in full Victorian style, hyper-exaggerated feminine outfits. Everyone wears black, but if a gal really wants to be the Queen Bee of the Goth Ball, she’ll dress in all white, if she is “alpha” enough to get away with it.

      I suppose that from a certain perspective, all popular culture is “degenerate” to a Puritan, and there is certainly a lot of “degeneracy” in goth culture. But it is uber-white and there’s obviously a European pagan side peeking out from behind the Catholic curtain. In the “pre-goth” era of Siouxsie Sioux and even David Bowie, there was of course a lot of “Nazi” stuff that was basically just “edgy” – since “Nazi” is bad, they wore swastikas and the like. But also there was an element of paganism to the actual NSDAP movement and I would guess the pre-goths kind of picked up on that.

      As for Soundgarden, eh, I liked a lot of their songs, and I kind of liked Nirvana and Pearl Jam, and I did like Alice in Chains a lot, but grunge was never really my favorite music. I was always a fan of music 20 years ahead of me – my all time favorite band is still 1970s AC/DC. I did not realize that Chris Cornell was Jewish.

      Liked by 2 people

  2. To repeat ramzpauls joke:
    “Goths like everything black, well, except black people.”

    We called them “raccoon chicks” and they were trouble:
    “I didn’t know you had a dog, aren’t all collars unisex?”

    Liked by 1 person

  3. I’ve always loved the goth scene, and really miss it. There was an amazing little club in Boston, tucked out of the way in a basement, where no one was likely to stray unless it was goth they sought. They did a mix of 80’s, goth and industrial. The regulars were fun and kind people, and yes, being female, and often on my own, I did feel safe.
    But I have to disagree with you on one thin! 😉 Marilyn Manson at the peak of his career was totally not lame! These days, well, seems the fire has gone out. If you really want a good show, Rammstein makes Manson look tame. 😂
    And there is a rather prominent pagan element to Goth. I saw a lot more of that than I did the Catholic influence, though that’s definitely a common occurrence.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. @Jessica

      I could just never get into Marilyn Manson. Maybe I’m just too old, but I always found Ministry and NIN to be more listenable. Partially I just thought Manson’s image was just too “try hard” for me. Incidentally, Ministry’s lyrics were often gratuitously “edgy” at times.

      But yeah, the “Renaissance” costumes the goth chicks would wear were often pretty cool – that’s another White scene I should write about: Ren Fests and the Society for Creative Anachronism – these are literally LARPers – “Live Action Role Players” – that spend a huge amount of time recreating old European costumes, technology – even some elaborate recreations of things like catapults and all. It’s pretty amazing stuff.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Stop! I can’t hear it! Lol! I’ve always loved that sort of thing — historical reenactments, Renaissance fests, and I’m especially interested in the viking age, but regrettably, I have never in my life had the opportunity to partake! You have no idea how much I would love to fight in a shield wall, train with sword and in archery. I’m just never in the right place and time! 😭


      2. @Jessica

        I used to go to the local Ren Fest every year when I was a teenager. The Society for Creative Anachronism is a specific group. A friend of mine used to go all the time and at first I was just sort of “yeah, I did that stuff when I was young” – until she told me about full out battle recreations with the catapults, suits of armor, swords, all this stuff.

        I mean, sure that stuff is pretty hokey to me, but I’d want to see it just for the sheer amazing engineering of it all. Give Whites some free time and they will do all sorts of crazy shit.

        It reminds me of this scene from my (of course) favorite show, Portlandia:

        Liked by 1 person

      3. Can’t play vids, but that group you mention sounds fun! There are viking centers all over the place here in Germany and surrounding countries, but all of it is too far away for me to visit. I’m always on the lookout for something to spring up near by.


  4. Truthfully, this is the worst article written about Goths by a non-Goth than I have ever had the displeasure of reading. No, let me correct that. The worst article appeared earlier this year on Infowars. It accused Goths of being satanic since we hate Trump. But this one comes close.

    Where to begin? I suppose a good place to start would be to ask what made Hipster Racist write this article. It was in answer to a challenge I set for him on AltRight. You see, he had claimed that the Gothic culture is full of outright fascists and that many of them “admitted” it. This was obviously a lie. I challened him to come up with three current Gothic personalities who were admitted fascists. If the Gothic culture is FULL of such people, then finding names shouldn’t be that hard, si? But of course he couldn’t do that, so instead he wrote this article which doesn’t come close to addressing our original disagreement. The whole point of this article that he wrote is not that Goths are fascist, it’s that Goths are mostly white and our music doesn’t sound like Michael Jackson. Well. Isn’t that special?

    By that standard, I guess you could call New York fans of classical music racists too. Except for the fact that these are the same people who led the Woman’s March against Trump and who vote overwhelmingly Democrat. Oops!

    And it’s not even true that most Goths on the planet are white. I don’t have official statistics, but I’d say around 40 percent of them are white. How can this be, you are probably asking, when ninety percent of Goths in American Goth clubs are white? Well it’s simple. America is not the only country on the planet. That’s another thing Hipster Racist might not realize. His knowledge of Gothic culture is limited to Europe and America. Gothic culture is very popular in Mexico. Indeed, Mexico city probably has more Goths in it than any other city in the world. My second home is in Mexico and let me tell you it’s rare to even go to the market without seeing at LEAST one Goth. Hipster Racist does not know this…because he is scathingly ignorant. He is like Jack Skellington finding Christmas for the first time in Nightmare Before Christmas. He likes what he sees but he does not understand and is at first incapable of even understanding WHY he likes it. Maybe Hipster is attracted to our rebellion and our tolerance. But until he realizes this, any attempt to explain our culture through racist glasses will end in disaster – just like when Jack kidnapped Santa Claus and tried to take his place.

    But what about white Goths in America? Are they racist? No way.

    Gothic women are, for the most part, hardcore feminist and “SJW.” Don’t believe me? You must not know many Goths. Go to YouTube and look for Gothic personalities. From TheGothicAlice to Toxic Tears, every single one of them is hardcore feminist, liberal, and anti-racist.  Go to any Goth party or bar and try finding a Trump supporter. Spoiler warning: You won’t. After Trump’s inaugural address, hundreds of Goths gathered together to place a curse on his Presidency. Thousands more supported this effort on Twitter. The media covered it. Alex Jones was so angry he declared Goths part of the satanic new world order trying to destroy western civilisation. Does Hipster Racist even know about all this? If he didn’t, then he is even more ignorant on Goths than I thought. If he does and he chose to ignore it, then this shows his deceitful nature.

    And of course this should come as no surprise to anyone who knows anything about Goths. Like Punks, Goths are often misunderstood and treated with bigotry and fear. We are accused of being either satanic or suicidal and nihilistic. In reality, Goths can come from any religion (or lack thereof) and race. Marilyn Mansion was blamed for the Columbine shooting, and My Chemical Romance was blamed when one of their fans in Britain  committed suicide.

    Speaking of Mansion, I see he was slandered in this article. Mansion was never racist or conservative. He’s by no means perfect, but don’t slander him. In interviews he has talked about all the Jews and blacks he has as friends, and has specifically called out hateful attitudes. A recent music video has him beheading Trump. The Daily Beast reports:

    “As an artist my duty is to ask the questions. The viewer must answer them.”

    That is how Marilyn Manson, ever the provocateur, describes the incredibly graphic new music video for “SAY10,” the title track off his upcoming 10th studio album, due sometime this year. The video, directed and conceptualized by Tyler Shields, depicts a besuited Manson seated on his throne in a caliginous, smoky room. “Cash is the poor man’s money,” he sings, before tearing out pages of a Bible, and, in a lightning-fast montage: beheading a blond man in a dark suit and red power tie who resembles Donald Trump.”

    Let’s not forget he’s dated Rose McGowan, right now one of the leading moral champions of feminism.

    Before I finish this article, there’s one more black pill I want to give you all about the alternative scene. This is a really fun story that happened decades ago when the Gothic subculture was first being formed. From Reason magazine:

    “I’ve been attending punk, hardcore, and metal shows since the age of 12, and I’ve encountered white-power partisans in a variety of locations, including performances by the multi-racial ska punks the Mighty Mighty Bosstones; the multi-racial post-hardcore group Orange 9MM; the multi-racial rap-rockers Rage Against the Machine; and the multi-racial death metal outfit Suffocation. None of those bands “dared listeners to assume the worst,” yet the Nazi wannabes still showed up. The reason is that racist thugs don’t care what band happens to be playing on a given night. They come out to cause trouble while aggressive music plays in the background.

    Around 1994, the great New York City hardcore punk band Murphy’s Law played a show I attended in Tampa, Florida. Much like Agnostic Front, the members of Murphy’s Law had had their names dragged through the mud by Maximum Rocknroll back in the ’80s. Murphy’s Law singer Jimmy Drescher has described the zine’s handiwork as “left-wing yellow journalism.”

    I saw a whole lot of neo-Nazi boneheads at that show. The band had to cut the music after a few songs because the racists were punching and bullying smaller kids in the pit. Then one of the fascists took a swing at Drescher. That led to a massive fight in which Drescher and his bandmates sent several of the neo-Nazis to the hospital. When it was all over, Murphy’s Law got back on stage and finished playing its set.

    Miret recounts similar anti-fascist exploits at Agnostic Front shows. “All hell broke loose” one night in Allentown, Pennsylvania, he recalls, when “hundreds of guys came to the concert with swastika flags.” After a group of fascists attacked a black audience member, the place exploded. “The fighting spilled onstage and backstage,” Miret writes. “Vinnie broke apart the mic stands and handed out pieces of metal to everyone backstage to crack some [Nazi] heads. He was like a general sending his troops out to battle.”

    New York hardcore may not have been sufficiently left-wing for Maximum Rocknroll, but that didn’t stop New York hardcore musicians from being antifa before antifa was cool.”

    The only part of Hipster Racist’s article I like is the pictures of beautiful Gothic women. Unfortunately for Hipster Racist, all those women are probably hardcore liberal feminists who despise racists and blush at the sight of an Antifa man punching a Nazi. Ouch!

    I will close this post by quoting a song from Nightmare Before Christmas, so both our arguments can end in poetry. Jack discovers Christmas. He loves it but he doesn’t understand:

    What’s this? What’s this?
    There’s color everywhere
    What’s this?
    There’s white things in the air
    What’s this?
    I can’t believe my eyes
    I must be dreaming
    Wake up, Jack, this isn’t fair
    What’s this?
    What’s this? What’s this?
    There’s something very wrong
    What’s this?
    There are people singing songs
    What’s this?
    The streets are lined with
    Little creatures laughing
    Everybody seems so happy
    Have I possibly gone daffy?
    What is this? What is this?
    There are children throwing snowballs
    Instead of throwing heads
    They’re busy building toys
    And absolutely no one’s dead
    There’s frost on every window
    Oh, I can’t believe my eyes
    And in my bones I feel the warmth
    That’s coming from inside
    Oh, look
    What’s this?
    They’re hanging mistletoe, they kiss
    Why that looks so unique, inspired
    They’re gathering around to hear a story
    Roasting chestnuts on a fire
    What’s this?
    What’s this?
    In here they’ve got a little tree, how queer
    And who would ever think
    And why?
    They’re covering it with tiny little things
    They’ve got electric lights on strings
    And there’s a smile on everyone
    So, now, correct me if I’m wrong
    This looks like fun
    This looks like fun
    Oh, could it be I got my wish?
    What’s this?
    Oh my, what now?
    The children are asleep
    But look, there’s nothing underneath
    No ghouls, no witches here to scream and scare them
    Or ensnare them, only little cozy things
    Secure inside their dreamland
    What’s this?
    The monsters are all missing
    And the nightmares can’t be found
    And in their place there seems to be
    Good feeling all around
    Instead of screams, I swear
    I can hear music in the air
    The smell of cakes and pies
    Are absolutely everywhere
    The sights, the sounds
    They’re everywhere and all around
    I’ve never felt so good before
    This empty place inside of me is filling up
    I simply cannot get enough
    I want it, oh, I want it
    Oh, I want it for my own
    I’ve got to know
    I’ve got to know
    What is this place that I have found?
    What is this?
    Christmas Town, hmm


    1. Um, Gothic Joe, I think you need to tone down the narcissism thing. I wrote this article because I write about white issues all the time. Your constant trolling of Alt Right and your “hate whitey” attitudes just struck me as awfully funny considering how uber-white the goth scene is.

      It’s not about YOU, dork.

      Liked by 2 people

      1. Yeah, I suspect I may be a narcissist. 😉 But you can’t deny that you wouldn’t have written this article if not for our little spat on AltRight.


    2. I challened him to come up with three current Gothic personalities who were admitted fascists.

      Oy vey, the narcissism. He gave me a homework assignment and expected me to hop to it. I don’t know any “Goth personalities” – what you mean like bands or DJs? Who cares? I’m talking about people I know, that were into the goth scene, that had outright fascist beliefs, and that acknowledged a lot of “fashy” elements to their own scene.

      I even provided you with the article by KillToParty about Marilyn Manson, which said pretty much the same thing.

      I’m sorry Gothic Joe, you are greatly overestimating your own importance in the situation here.

      By the way, if you are over the age of, say, 25, and you’re still dressing up like a goth – you’re a dork. The “scene” is for young teenage White girls and their friends. Get a life, dude.

      I guess you could call New York fans of classical music racists too.

      Um, where have YOU been, dork? Of COURSE they call classical music “racist” – it’s traditional European music, thus, it’s “racist.” White = Racist – we get it.

      who vote overwhelmingly Democrat. Oops!

      Oops! Bernie Sanders is a racist, just like his all-white Democratic voters – they are racists too. The entire Democratic party is an example of institutional Racism. You’re really out of the loop here, Joe.

      Gothic culture is very popular in Mexico.

      Huh, Mexico, a Catholic country, has a Catholic inspired goth subculture. Wow – like wow, who could have imagined that? It’s almost as if I even mentioned Latin American “Carnivale” culture in this very post.

      Maybe Hipster is attracted to our rebellion and our tolerance.

      LOL, you are so precious, Joe. The “rebellion” in goth culture is prepackaged teenage subculturalism – it’s not revolutionary, in fact, it’s awfully reactionary. And there isn’t anything particularly “tolerant” about goth subcultures either, except it’s probably more gay friendly than some other teenage fandoms.

      hardcore feminist, liberal, and anti-racist.

      Oh Joe, you try so hard. “Anti-racist?” ALL WHITE PEOPLE ARE RACIST, BY DEFINITION. “Feminist?” White Feminism is racist.

      Thousands more supported this effort on Twitter.

      LOL. “Alex Jones?” Alex Jones is a “shock jock.” He’s essentially an internet troll.

      Joe here thinks the world began when Trump was elected, he (for some odd reason) thinks I’m some sort of big Trump fan, and that America is divided between “pro-Trump” and “anti-Trump.”

      It really just shows how narrow minded and provincial Joe here is. He says he’s half-Mexican. Well, I gotta say, Trump WAS right about one thing – “Mexico, they aren’t sending their best, folks!”

      Like Punks, Goths are often misunderstood and treated with bigotry and fear.

      I mean. Wow. Just wow. Joe here is now going to tell us that Goth are “oppressed” because people think they are stupid looking and try WAY too hard to be “edgy.” He’s the Dr. Reverend Martin Luther King of Goths, marching against oppression!

      This is comedy gold, I mean, I couldn’t make this stuff up!

      he has talked about all the Jews and blacks he has as friends

      Oh, I see, it’s the “I’m not racist, I have LOTS of black friends!” In case you don’t know, that means he’s racist.

      Rose McGowan, right now one of the leading moral champions of feminism

      This from the guy that just said yesterday that he doesn’t look to Hollywood as “leaders” – yet, there it is.

      Speaking of Rose McGowan …

      neo-Nazi boneheads … anti-fascist

      This is of course also comical, and it really speaks to how self-important these SJW types are. On reddit you can read hundreds of thousands of words from old, washed up “punk rockers” talking about their glory days of “fighting fascist skinheads.”

      Skinheads – just another permutation of teenage subculturalism. So you have, essentially, working class White youth – “racist skinheads” – being attacked by the middle-to-upper middle class “punk rockers” and SJW types.

      It’s all so ironic, but it’s lost on SJW types because of how narrow-minded their political understanding is.

      all those women are probably hardcore liberal feminists who despise racists and blush at the sight of an Antifa man punching a Nazi.

      Oh, I don’t Joe. I’ve known a LOT of feminists in my time. I can assure you, those goth chicks? To guys like YOU – sure, they will spout the SJW line, because that is what is expected.

      Behind closed doors? Well, as PJ O’Rourke said: “No one has ever had a fantasy about being tied to a bed and sexually ravished by someone dressed as a liberal.”

      Your problem Joe, like all SJWs, is you really misunderstand who your enemy is. You really have this fantasy of yourself “punching a Nazi” and you think that everyone who is “racist” must be some kind of “skinhead” or some sort of costume wearing “Neo-Nazi” (those are FBI agents, Joe.)

      But hey – it’s too bad you have such a low opinion of Black people, because quite often their poets know the deal:

      The KKK has got three-piece suits

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Triggered much? 😀 You were clearly very angry while writing this. That’s okay bro, embrace your anger. As the Sith might say.

        Your post is divided into two arguments. The first where you try to lump me in with the most radical (for lack of a better word) “SJW’s” and the second where you’re basically shouting cuck in more civilised terms.

        1) I am not one of those silly Salon writers who thinks straight white males are the worst thing on the planet. I despise racism in all its forms. Earlier this year I ripped the movie “Get Out” to shreds because it is racist against white people. Most white people are decent. So no, that’s not going to work here. My first girlfriend (who is Gothic) was white.

        2) I love it when an Alt-Right man claims that his opponents girlfriends would rather sleep with him. The argument goes like this: “Oh, they may end up marrying you, but before they do they’re going to have smoking hot sex with me – cause you’re a cuck!” We all have our fantasies, but that one is special. Although I prefer when you think I’m paid by George Soros.


      2. The first where you try to lump me in with the most radical (for lack of a better word) “SJW’s”

        You spend all day, every day, on posting comical SJW talking points, and your entire goth screed was a paen to how SJW your goth scene is. If the dominatrix boot fits, Joe, you’re gonna have to wear it.

        I am not one of those silly Salon writers who thinks straight white males are the worst thing on the planet.

        No, Joe, you are exactly that.

        I despise racism in all its forms

        No, Joe, you ARE a racist. Everyone’s a little bit racist, sometimes. Embrace it. It’s part of being human. The fact you feel the need to loudly proclaim how “not racist” you are just shows how conflicted you are about race – perhaps because of your 1/4 Aztec ancestry. It’s common for “mixed” people to have all sorts of hang ups about race and ethnicity.

        But you’re still a “racist.”

        I love it when an Alt-Right man claims that his opponents girlfriends would rather sleep with him.

        I can’t really blame Joe, because he is one of those types that desperately needs to signal his SJW credentials. So, he assumes that anyone who disagrees with the SJW talking points must fit into his carefully crafted strawman – a “bonehead nazi skin” or a “southern Bible thumper” or a “Richard Spencer Alt Right” etc. It’s just silly.

        See, here’s the thing Joe. “Goth” is playacting, it’s playing dress up. You may take that subculture really seriously, but “goth chicks” do not. “Goth chicks” are just regular women playing dress up. Which means sexually, they are just like all women. “Goth” is just a costume, it’s not a lifestyle. At least, it’s not a lifestyle for women.

        Obviously I’m much older than you are, and I’ve never lived my entire life inside of a “scene” or a “subculture” like goth. So I have a lot broader experiences with women – just people in general – than someone like you who defines their life by their marketing subculture.

        Let’s put it this way – I’ve seen it, Joe. I’ve seen the super hot goth chicks drop their “goth” boyfriend the second a suit wearing upper class man comes calling. That’s just the way the system works. After all, a suit is a kind of costume too.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. “I’ve seen the super hot goth chicks drop their “goth” boyfriend the second a suit wearing upper class man comes calling. That’s just the way the system works. After all, a suit is a kind of costume too.”

        So? Is this something I’m supposed to be angry about? Of course that happens! The reverse also happens. I’ve seen Goths dump their suit wearing men for Gothic men. And I’ve seen normal men ditch their preppy girlfriends for Gothic women. Sometimes opposites attract. Again, why should I care? Being Goth is just one part of a woman or man’s personality. Some Goths marry other Goths and some don’t. It’s like saying people wearing red shirts don’t always marry other people wearing red.


      4. I don’t know, Joe, that throw away line by PJ ORourke, one of my favorite quotes, really seemed to stick in your craw. You were the one telling me that I’d never get lucky with one of those hot goth chicks because how “racist” I am. You’re the one that spends all day, every day, on talking about what a “feminist” you are.

        And believe me, most women know EXACTLY the kind of men who call themselves “male feminists” – they are the ones always trying to jerk off in front of uninterested women and otherwise thinking that their loud protestations of how “feminist” they are will work as a cover for their creepiness.

        Again, “goth” is just a subculture, it’s just playing dress up. It’s a style of music. You take it far more seriously than everyone else.

        Liked by 1 person

      5. You’ve never actually considered that I may be trolling you with “I’m a feminist” all the day long? How many times do you think I tell girls I’m dating that I’m feminist? Zero. They know I am, it doesn’t have to be said. Guys who are always telling women they’re feminists just want to have sex. True male feminists don’t have to say it so much unless that’s their OCD. But calling myself a feminist at AltRight seemed to really annoy staff writer Melissa and so half the posters, so why not? I’m even thinking of changing my name to “Gothic Joe (aka dickless male feminist.)”


      6. I may be a male feminist, but in real life I don’t say it nearly as much as when I’m trolling you guys. The girls I date know I’m a male feminist, it doesn’t have to be said. Men who are always telling girls that they’re male feminists just want to have sex. True male feminists don’t have to say it so much unless that’s their OCD.


      7. You know, Joe, I think you clearly have some hangups – not just about race, but about sex too. While loudly declaring yourself a “feminist” you also feel the humorously patriarchal need to tell everyone how “your” women, “goth chicks,” will only have sex with men who declare they agree with your political agenda.

        As if women don’t routinely have relationships with men who have very different political opinions. As if women don’t have sex with “racist” or “sexist” men. I also note you have numerous times mentioned you’ve had sex with “white” women – that was really important for you to note, as a self-declared “bi-racial” man.

        Shades of your Hollywood moral compass, Harvey Weinstein, who liked to “get back” at the “anti-semites” by raping all those “shiksas.” So here you are, creeping on teenage girls at the goth clubs, doing your own sexual version of “Reconquista,” getting revenge on the Anglo fathers that so humiliated Mexico in the past.

        It must be really difficult, knowing that your parents rejected their own people. Was it your father that rejected Mexican women for a German? The other way around? It’s a pretty common problem with “bi-racials” – always unsure of their identity.

        So now you spend a LOT of time, online, trolling White men, loudly announcing your moral superiority, telling anyone and everyone who will listen how “not racist” and “not sexist” you are.

        I’ve always been amazed at just how incapable of introspection leftist anti-whites really are. Typically, it comes from a deep sense of self-loathing and inferiority.

        Liked by 1 person

      8. You’re a male feminist? You’re a fucking pussy! Feminism is bullshit! It’s a con, a complete scam on the dumb sheep so the rich can get richer on more and cheaper slave labour and destroy the family structure. And look at the havoc it’s wreaked.


      9. I don’t prey on teenagers like Roy Moore you nitwit. The girls I’m with tend to be in their twenties. It amuses me how you keep making wrong predictions. Here’s a hint: If you don’t want to look like a fool, then don’t base your argument on information you have no way of knowing is true or false.
        I’m done commenting on your little blog. Nearly every statement you’ve made has been embarrassingly stupid and wrong.

        Your Alt-Right movement is dying. It’s been bleeding painfully since Unite the Right and soon it will be nothing but a few angry young incels and a few old bloggers like you. America is becoming more and more diverse everyday. Not even Trump is trying to stop it. You lose everyday and you will never stop losing.

        Hail Lillith!!!


      10. Joe,

        It’s awfully clear I got your number. Since you are essentially a self-parody with a desperate need to signal your self-proclaimed moral superiority, it’s not hard to figure out. You claim to be a feminist – I’d suggest you read some actual radical feminists and find out what they think about your attitudes toward women, especially white women. Know thyself, as they say.

        White Identity is here to stay. What you don’t seem to understand is that the more “diverse” a country gets, the more racially divided a country gets. “Anti-racism” was a luxury that a 90% White country could afford. Now? Do you think Trump was just a one off? The next one is going to be much worse for you.

        Let me leave you with some wisdom from Lee Kuan Yew, the Founding Father of Singapore. It’s about “diversity.”

        In multiracial societies, you don’t vote in accordance with your economic interests and social interests, you vote in accordance with race and religion.

        “Goth” is an artificial identity, it’s not real like race, religion, and ethnicity. As America gets more diverse, silly little divisions based on music and fashion become less and less important as reality – like race and ethnicity – comes to the fore.

        It’s the same in Mexico.

        Liked by 1 person

      11. P.S. I despise radical feminists like Dworkin and her ilk. The Male Gaze (like the female gaze) is something wonderful and pure. A pox on Dworkin’s grave! I despise her as much as I despise you.


      12. Um, Joe, the concept of the Male Gaze comes from Laura Mulvey, not Andrea Dworkin. Women aren’t just interchangeable, you know – not even feminists.

        You know, I’m starting to think you aren’t a feminist at all, nor have any understanding of feminism ideologically. In fact, I’m guessing you aren’t too well read on racial and ethnic ideas either.

        I think you’re just making it up as you go along, just sort of riffing off of headlines as opposed to actually thinking through issues. Don’t worry, you have a lot of company.


      13. I know Dworkin didn’t come up with male gaze, I just use her as the token radical feminist. The one who actually did come up with the term was referring to movies, and it was taken out of context by everyone else.

        And yes, I am quite pleased to say that I despise radicals on both sides. On some issues (like guns) I’m even conservative. Like most Americans, neither party completely represents my views. And yet, I find myself in agreement with most people I meet face to face. Most of the ugly partisans (of whom the Alt-Right are among the WORST) can be found only on the internet.


      14. Joe, you go to Alt Right sites and spew personal invective and loudly denounce everyone while posturing as somehow more moral. Of course you are going to get a negative response. You’re a troll.

        You’re also absolutely FULL of racial hate. I read you comment just now about how happy you will be if French people become a minority. That’s called advocating and celebrating colonialism and genocide.

        You are literally the “hate” caricature you project on to others. Can’t you see that?

        Liked by 1 person

      15. Last night when you were all alone in bed…did you have nightmares of a six foot tall bi-racial man kissing Gothic women? 😀


      16. Check it out:

        “did you have nightmares of a six foot tall bi-racial man kissing Gothic women? ”

        1. Gothic Joe is DESPERATE to tell everyone that he kisses Full White Women – notice he is NOT telling us how hot Mestizo women are. He “identifies” as Mestizo, but he only wants PURE WHITE LADIES. Thus, he admits, openly, that he’s a White Supremacist and finds “Pure White Aryan Women” the most attractive.

        2. He is clearly kind of defensive about his height, telling us that he’s “six foot tall.” I mean, six foot is pretty average for a White man, but Mestizos – like Gothic Joe – tend to be much shorter.

        As I said, this is all based on a deep sense of inferiority. I never said anything negative about other races, or even bi-racial people – but Gothic Joe just CANNOT STAND IT when White people have their own deal.

        Plus, he clearly has a LOT of hang ups about women.

        As Trump might say, SAD!

        Liked by 1 person

  5. The funny thing is, most goths would probably give you the standard liberal obfuscation “goth is multi-cultural”, “what is white anyway?”, while being totally oblivious to the fact that everything about their subculture is European to the core.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. @New Paradigm

      No doubt. However I was close with a woman who was pretty into goth culture (after work, during the day she was a yuppie, at night she was Queen Goth.) I was always “red pilling” her about race and stuff, and although she was a self-described “feminist,” a “liberal” and considered the Democratic party to be her religion, she was fundamentally honest about it. She said, sure, it’s a White scene, we all know it. She admitted that there was a strain of “fashiness” to the goth scene and would mention occasional DJs and bands that would get into trouble for making some politically incorrect statements about one thing or another.

      Most White liberals are like this. They know which platitudes to mouth and many of them truly don’t consider themselves to be “racist.” But it’s obvious they feel more comfortable around other White people, they like White music, they like White scenes – the women really only date White men.

      Recall the Clinton vs. Bernie Sanders election we just had. Look at a Bernie crowd, it was all White faces. Bernie only won in the states with virtually no Black people. He and his fans were constantly called “racist” and were even attacked by BLM.

      This dynamic is everywhere. It’s getting to the point that even Nice White Liberals can’t deny race affects everything – to deny that race affects everything is “racist” in and of itself. And no White person can ever be “not racist” – in fact, denying your own “racism” … is RACIST itself!

      So more and more they are coming around. The best red pillers for White people are non-Whites.

      Liked by 1 person

  6. Straight up that shit is a degenerate jew garbage. It’s just pagan larping mixed with weird old style clothing. Every girl I met into this stuff is fucked up in the head btw


  7. I don’t know man, I mean in the original circles course it was majority white people, but London isn’t as white right now. This is all a bit of a stretch at least not universal. I’ve lived in London, Florida, Southern California and Northern California and the scene included plenty of non-white people in all. In fact for sure my circle has more Latinos than white people in Southern California. I’m not saying there’s no racism, but there certainly areas in which is not so overwhelmingly white, or even pretty diverse so you can’t paint it with such a broad brush.


    1. @Testessa

      So now that Goth is 30 something years old and no longer the hip new thing, some “Latins” (some “Hispanics” are White, let’s not forget) in areas with huge Latin populations, have adopted Goth culture. That isn’t really much of a surprise and in fact I pointed this out numerous times right on this thread.

      “I’m not saying there’s no racism”

      Are you White? Then you are a “racist.” Stop denying your own racism, the Goth scene may as well be a Ku Klux Klan rally. (There were Hispanics in the original Ku Klux Klan let’s not forget.)


  8. So…you’re using Bowie who was in a long term relationship with one the most famous black models in the world to define goth musical influence. But a lot of artists have ties to non-white spaces. If you look at the history of british punk it pulled influence from the ska scene early on in terms of style and sound. Major influencers like Depeche Mode, again, were tied to other cultures and ancestries (Martin Gore is Half black, and a fan of everything from gospel to motown). Alternative artists like Morrissey have massive followings in non-white areas that actually rival europe or the U.S. Artists such as Grace Jones provided visuals that played with punk imagery and technology that influenced both on and off the screen. You’re trying to say that goth and all alternative culture is an implicitly white space for white people…but there’s nothing to really support that about the culture itself other than it was produced in large part but not exclusively by white westerners. These subcultures are more accurately described as western, but even that isn’t sensible because there are far more goth subcultures in Asia than the west.. Goths exist in the bronx, Oakland, Brazil, South Africa, Peru, and other places and have for decades. Why? Because of radios, magazines, and records. It is a mostly white scene with goth in the U.S and parts of Europe. That’s hardly the majority of the world. There’s tons of black punks and goths out there, tons of asian punks and goths, tons of latin punks and goths; tons of mixed race goths and punks. There’s also tons of goths and punks, like Bowie, who are close to black muscians and people of color broadly/intimately. You’re ignorance on the subject kind of shows throughout this whole piece (and your whole website but I’m trying to be nice here). Just because you’re ignorant of these subcultures existing outside your small wheelhouse doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Not to mention anti-racist punks and goths have been a major part of these subcultures since the late 70s, and there’s goth and punk bands around the world that have been together since the 70s. Some of them have been because of people like you pushed out of venues not because goth is “white” and “always has been” but because of bigots who enjoy that myth and enjoy gatekeeping,

    Further there’s no proof around women feel safer at goth clubs because they’re mostly white. Women, mistakenly, feel safer at goth clubs because they think they guys won’t be bros, will be less aggressive, and generally won’t feel them up. Truthfully in my area full of colleges most of the women I’ve met actually just feel safer in environments with…few men they deem aggressive. Unfortunately women are often setting themselves up for abusive people by letting their guards down in alternative clubs. This is a dangerous mentality.


    1. @goddess

      Really? REALLY? You are calling yourself “goddess?” Have you ever heard of the term “humility?”

      Davie Bowie was so “racist” that he inspired “Rock Against Racism” and caused a panic about “nazis” in rock music. Maybe all that backlash made him overcompensate? You know, like hiding his homosexuality with a “beard?”

      I see you’re really triggered by the article.

      You do realize that YOU are a racist, right? If you deny it that only proves how racist you are.

      Why are you so racist?

      . It is a mostly white scene with goth in the U.S and parts of Europe.

      Thanks for agreeing with me, all the rest of your hyperventilation sounds like desperate overcompensation. Eh.


    2. @goddess

      I mean, come on, do you even read what you write?

      You’re trying to say that goth and all alternative culture is an implicitly white space for white people…but there’s nothing to really support that about the culture itself other than it was produced in large part but not exclusively by white westerners.

      So, a bunch of White people make a subculture that is mostly other White people, and yet you choke on the idea that it’s a “White space.”

      Why do you hate White people so much? I bet you’re White too, aren’t you? You realize it doesn’t matter how much you posture, you’re still “racist” right?

      Relax – it’s OK to be White.


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